Wentworth Miller talks about hating

Hi. I’m Wentworth Miller and I’m here to talk to you about a very serious subject: Haters.

They lurk in the shadows
They know what they do
and no matter what
they’re hating on you

They’re Negative Nellies
with yellow bellies
that never get laid
cuz their pussies are smelly

OK that was mean
but haters are keen
their sickness they spread
what would cure it, is peen

Yes peen heals the world
for a boy or a girl
orgasms are great
so give it a whirl

I have created a new foundation hoping to cure the disease Hateration and it’s called F.U.C.K.Y.O.U. (Friends Understanding Cunty Kinsmen Yet Obviously Upset) I hope you will all join me, in friendship and understanding, in letting Haters everywhere know that they can change, and together, we can all get laid. Thank you.

F.U.C.K.Y.O.U. hopes very much that you all get fucked.

pic source

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88 Comments

Filed under Humor, WFW

88 responses to “Wentworth Miller talks about hating

  1. Angel

    LoL nice one wfw.

  2. Van

    Haters:

    You need to realize who you are
    You will find out sooner than later,
    You criticize and you judge
    You are a hypocrite and a hater.

    Why? Who are you?
    Don’t walk around like shit don’t stink,
    Before you open your mouth
    You need to stop and think.

    There are too many things going on
    Focus on what WFW is doing,
    A fabulous sense of humor
    Should be what you haters should be pursuing.

    Written by Timika Burton and adapted by me 🙂

    At least Hate with Love and Humour!
    Peace & Prosperity :p
    ROCK ON WFW!

  3. hate generates hate just as love generates love!
    So we need to love each other!! c’mon people!
    Peace 🙂

  4. WFW

    G, you are such a sweetheart. You’re right. Love is what we need so I shall say this out of love.

    It’s not too late! Stop hating today. It will change your life.

    Peen be unto you.

  5. Juma

    WFW you are really inspired! And inspiring to people to love is the best way to live. Way to go girl!
    I especially liked the part: ” …together, we can all get laid.” Is this a promisse? 😀

  6. NA

    Screw the Haters (literally).
    And after we all get some, we can heal the world.

  7. BB

    I wanna be a F.U.C.K.Y.O.U MEMBER, where do I sign up to get peen?

  8. Eshna

    *singing*
    peen the world
    make it a better place
    for you
    and for me
    and the entire human race

    Sounds like F.U.C.K.Y.O.U. is an organization I need to join. Let us come together to peen the world with love. 🙂

  9. milana

    count me in too.

    ok. i just discovered this site today. and it’s hotttttttttttttt like went. i love it. congrats.

    PS: of course I started to read from the first post. it will take a while but it sure deserves.

  10. BJones

    Hi! I’m pretty new here but I actually read your blog everytime you write something new. I really like your imagination!:-D I simply love the poem, as always, but I don’t understand the word peen. I normally understand a lot of english but some slang words really confuse me. 🙂

    P.S.: I wanna join F.U.C.K.Y.O.U. too! 😀

  11. @BJones: yeah the slang is terrible! But I’ve something that can help you: http://www.urbandictionary.com/

    Trust me that site is great! 😉

  12. WFW

    Juma, that is a promise.

    BB, your peen is on the way.

    Welcome Milana. Happy Reading! The links in the sidebar under Best Of are my favorites and the links in the one year anniversary post are good too.

    BJones, Peen = Penis

    OMG she said PENIS!

    Welcome and thanks for reading. You, as well as everyone, are welcome to join F.U.C.K.Y.O.U. It’s a very open and versatile organization committed to peace.

  13. milana

    WFW, i’ll read all of them. they’re too good. 🙂

  14. BJones

    wmitalia, thanks for that. It will come in handy.
    Ahh, the poem makes a lot more sense now, WFW. 😀

  15. Maybe we should start a Peen Corps, or a Nobel Peen Prize. The website could be Peen.org(asm)

    Ok, I’ll stop.

    LOL

  16. maria

    clever as always,that’ ll solve the problem.Haters, be aware !!!Can I join ? I’d really like to get laid ( by certain someone that cumms! by the name of WENTWORTH)

  17. miz brisvegas

    WFW 11.20: Peen be unto you.

    Peen be unto you?!

    Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

    Salacious AND sacrilegious!

    I am sure W. Miller would oh so approve! You’re back in business and I cannot possibly welcome you enough!

    Well done!

  18. sdg1844

    Once more with feeling!

    F.U.C.K.Y.O.U.

  19. Notthedoctor

    Hater of Haters:

    I eat Haters for breakfast,
    but I beat them first!

    mmm… delicious!

  20. Mary anne

    LOL@NICBEAST!!

  21. Erika

    I will only be part of F.U.C.K.Y.O.U if Went’s offering his peen. 😉 I’m happy that you’re back WFW.

  22. Jackie0

    Amennn lol

  23. Horray for PSA’s!!!

    This message has been brought to you by the letter “P” for “punch you in the fucking face if you don’t put down the haterade, and get on board the love train, bitches!”

    Woohah! Gotchu all in check!

  24. lj

    That was a charming post A-jizzle — threatening to “punch you in the fucking face if you don’t put down the haterade, and get on board the love train, bitches!”

    I’ve seen more hate on this particular blog than on any other board. Ever. Well done.

  25. Mink

    lj, that comment by A-Jizzle was what I believe is referred to in certain circles as a ‘joke’.

    And…

    “I’ve seen more hate on this particular blog than on any other board. Ever. Well done.”

    Wow! Really? Then you need to get out more, because I assure you this is nothing. This is just tinkering around the edges of mild outrage. We are but mere kindergarten students at the feet of those who really know how to hate, trust me. 🙂

  26. Wentworth

    I am Wentworth Miller and I actually find this site amusing. And you all know that I would never talk the way the ‘imposter’ has spoken.

    WFW keep it up!

  27. For lj:

    Sarchasm
    [sahr-kaz-uhm]
    noun
    1. The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn’t get it.

    lj: That was a charming post A-jizzle — threatening to “punch you in the fucking face if you don’t put down the haterade, and get on board the love train, bitches!”…I’ve seen more hate on this particular blog than on any other board. Ever. Well done.

    AJ: The sarchasm is VAST between you and I, and it seems as though you’ve already fallen in and hit the frickin’ bottom, dear.

  28. We should stop adding fuel to the fire.
    We should stop hating each other.
    We should start loving each other, because this “war” is so ridiculous. Don’t you think?
    We love Wentworth and his work, maybe in different ways, but everybody loves him and this is the most important thing.

    Peace.

  29. Linds

    WFW you have me LITERALLY rolling on the floor. Fabulous. Just…utterly, simply fabulous show of creativity – keep it up, Girl!

  30. yellow belly

    “OK that was mean
    but haters are keen
    their sickness they spread
    what would cure it, is peen”

    Um, It’s a fine sentiment, but haters have the vastness of the entire internet at their disposal… Compared to the amount of quality peen it wins every time.
    Just take a look at any WM- message board and tell me how much peen you see there… Even your blog is lacking in this regard,WFW…

  31. WFW

    You are so right and to this I say: More peen in here! STAT!

  32. Mink

    You know what worries me? It’s the delusional shit from people who believe he is reading what they are writing. That is the truly alarming stuff.

    And then they get all up in arms about what other people say in case they hurt his feelings. Man, that’s just taking it all way too seriously.

    What is it about Went that makes people so loonytoons?

    I feel like there should be a new rule that before you get accepted to the fandom you have to place your hand on the bible and repeat 100 times…

    “HE IS NEVER GOING TO FUCK ME. HE IS NEVER GOING TO FUCK ME…”

    …until they fucking believe it.

  33. niknak

    Mink, I beg to disagree. Went is going to fuck me!!! I have been clicking my heels together three times on a daily basis saying so…

    Wentworth Miller brings about very intense feelings for his fans. He makes his fans vehement, passionate, and yes, mad as fuck! We all suffer from this peril at some point, but the problem arises when it stops being fun or funny and turns obsessive and creepy. When fans start projecting their feelings or ideas onto a man the have never (or only briefly) met, it becomes un-fun, and utterly ridiculous.

    I, for one, have no clue as to what Wentworth reads when he goes on the Internet. I don’t know what his mother or his sisters read, and I definitely don’t know what his representation is taking as a cross-section to get the pulse of his fans (because if they are reading what we write, they obviously don’t give a shit! But that is a whole different can of worms…). I do know that if he reads anything written about him on the Internet by his fans and takes it to heart, he is not the charming intellectual I consider him to be. I also know I am not going to censor myself or ask anyone else to do so just because he may or may not read what I/we may or may not say.

    The inter-fandom squabbling has gotten so far out of control that I am not sure what repair can be done to fix it. Hopefully, the charity will be a HUGE success and all WM fans will see that even if we cannot agree on some things, we do have the power to do great things together.

  34. yellow belly

    Sorry, I can’t resist. WWF, please remove my post if it’s not appropriate.

    “The inter-fandom squabbling has gotten so far out of control that I am not sure what repair can be done to fix it.”
    From where I’m standing it looks more like the beef of a handful of people with WM and many of his fans.

    “When fans start projecting their feelings or ideas onto a man the have never (or only briefly) met, it becomes un-fun, and utterly ridiculous.”
    I hope you don’t exclude yourself from this group since all of your posts here and on FCOWM express the opinion that WM has personally wronged you for not pandering to (some of his) fans’ wishes.

  35. yellow belly

    Grammar correction:
    for not pandering to (some of his) fans’ wishes. = because of his not pandering to (some of his) fans’ wishes.

  36. LadyN

    Wow.

    *woot’s with mouth full of popcorn*

  37. Mr. Maichan

    Hey, LadyN,

    can you pass me some of that popcorn?

  38. gypsiee

    Wow, catching up finally, thats a lot of words. At the church and here and at some other site someone once pm’d me the link to.

    All I can say is I miss picspam. The only and one thing I like is The Pretty’s face (and mouth and mole and feet and hands and wrist and ………. )

    And…….. I just want to see his face.

    My 2 bits – The way I see it is if someone hates me, then I am doing something good. So WFW, members of the Church. Enjoy the hate. Its entirely too amusing to read. But then again reading it I kinda felt that the age group necessarily in the mentioned site is younger and hence more immature. I could well be wrong.

    On a more humble note. Spreading the sermons of OLP. “Be Good”.

  39. Mink

    From where I’m standing it looks more like the beef of a handful of people with WM and many of his fans.

    LMAO! So where exactly are you standing then? The moon?

    Um, so, who exactly started all the hating on other fans? Who created and populated a thread created specifically to hate on other people in the same fandom?

    I think we all know the answer to that one.

    As for the people you don’t ‘approve’ of having a “beef” with Went? Just… *yawn* Change the record, won’t you? It’s not any more true today than it was yesterday, and it was a total load of crap yesterday. So, yeah.

    “When fans start projecting their feelings or ideas onto a man the have never (or only briefly) met, it becomes un-fun, and utterly ridiculous.”

    I hope you don’t exclude yourself from this group since all of your posts here and on FCOWM express the opinion that WM has personally wronged you for not pandering to (some of his) fans’ wishes.

    Oh dear, once again, the whole ‘not understanding of English’ thing.

    First of all, “all” niknak’s post don’t do anything, let alone express such an opinion about Went. She posts a wide range of opinion on various Went-related topics, and occasionally posts some constructive criticism of Wentworth. You saying that that is “all” she does, does not make it true, and in fact just undermines your entire argument, because you are obviously not interested in posting ‘facts’ but a distortion of the truth to suit your biased POV.

    Also, (and I fear this may be a tricky concept for you to grasp, but I’m gonna give it a go), criticising someone does NOT EQUAL “projecting your feelings onto them.” In fact, it’s kind of the opposite, as when you are criticising someone you are implicitly recognising that they feel differently to you (hence the criticism).

    What niknak was referring to (I believe), was the instances we have seen where people assume, for example, that just because they find a joke or a criticism or a piece of snark offensive, Wentworth would too. YOU DON’T KNOW THAT! You don’t know him, or what he likes or finds funny. He may find snarky posts giving him shit about his shoes hilarious, or certainly he may not give a crap. Assuming he finds things upsetting because you do is “projecting your feelings on to him”. See? And there’s really no need to do it, promise.

    See, I’m not ‘hating’ on you, I’m just trying to explain how your opinions are somewhat misguided. Tis all.

  40. So Sad

    So sad! ALMOST ALL sites about Wentworth are so boring now… people fighting, sites with the gay flag, sites with the straight flag and so on…
    Thanx WFW for your dolls post (and for your blog), the only funny (and not boring) site TO ME.
    I suspect that Wentworth is more funny than the majority of his fans!

  41. yellow belly

    “LMAO! So where exactly are you standing then? The moon?”

    Outside the fandom.

    “First of all, “all” niknak’s post don’t do anything, let alone express such an opinion about Went. She posts a wide range of opinion on various Went-related topics, and occasionally posts some constructive criticism of Wentworth.”

    Ok, I was not aiming at stating facts. This has been my general IMPRESSION of her posts and opinions ever since the Paley debacle. They all (or the majority of them) have the slightly bitter tang of someone who’s not happy with the object of one’s affections / obsession etc. – take your pick. The tang of hate… even if it’s just my opinion. Of course, she hasn’t been the only one so it’s not fair to aim this particular accusation at her alone. I was just giving an example and was too furious to be polite. I still am.

    Please note that I am not a fan of WM. I like the guy well enough but prefer Michael Scofield as the object of my fantasies. I kept lurking at the church for the sheer pleasure of the (until about half a year ago) riveting discussion and PB tidbits I could snatch on occasion. And I never had to question my grasp of the English language or my intelligence.

    I’ve been growing increasingly uneasy with the attitude towards WM over the past months. Why did the “gentle ribbing” morph into sarcasm and black comedy? Of course it is your right to say whatever you please on your own board but you have to be prepared for the reaction of people with different background to yours or from a different culture. The other option is to make it private for a few choice friends and all the interference will cease.

    Please do not insult my intelligence by telling me your beef with other fans (or WM ) is a fandom phenomenon, because it is NOT. I can count the ones that agree with you in the Church and have stated so on the fingers of one hand. It’s a different matter altogether that people have expressed their opinions of you and your few loyal friends on Excommunicated or whatever that site is called. Opinions ARE like assholes – everybody has one. Just as you have an opinion on everything WM does or doesn’t do so do others on the things you do or say – you put yourself in the public light, you have to deal with the good AND the bad that comes with it.

    Back to the Church: the atmosphere there has been deteriorating steadily for no reason I can discern. I also found myself confronted with circular logic more often than I care to remember or recount. Considering that I’m studying philosophy, and logic specifically, this semester you will probably understand my confusion. Your and maichan’s closing posts gave me a headache.

    I readily admit to not understanding a single thing that has been going on in the Church in the past six months so could you please explain (I really want to know, no snark involved) what on earth happened that provoked the (temporary) closing of said Church? How did you come to the conclusion that your right to free speech was being challenged? I never noticed anyone disagreeing with you on anything of importance on your board.

    I realize I’ve been using WFW’s blog rather freely for ranting and I apologize for it. I would fully understand if she decided to delete my posts; it’s just that this is the only means of direct communication with Mink that I’m aware of. I don’t expect to change anyone’s stand on anything. But since I still have respect for Mink I thought the views of a non-fan might be of interest to her. If not – I won’t be offended in the slightest.

    Thank you.

  42. saluki

    I realize that I am wading into “enemy territory” here, but as the Church has been locked AND I have been banned, this is my next best opportunity to respond to the manifesto that was recently posted on the Church’s website.

    I don’t take it lightly when someone implies that I have “forced” them to quash freedom of speech. Generations of my family have fought and died to protect this most precious of freedoms. We may only be talking about a Wentworth Miller fansite here, but freedom of thought, speech and beliefs should be protected and defended, no matter how large or small the issue.

    For all of the talk of “rights” and “freedom” espoused by mink’s manifesto, she is certainly more than willing to sacrifice both rather quickly when things start to get tough.

    Taking away the freedom of your members to advance their opinions is a rather cowardly method of quashing dissent in order to “prevent the fandom being brought further into disrepute by those who seek to judge others and censor them for having a different point of view to their own”. What are you doing by shutting down the thread but censoring people from expressing their opinions?? I just don’t get the logic of her actions. It makes no sense to spout off about freedom and rights and then take them away from your posters. Just admit that you are unable to deal with differing opinions and that it is easier to shut down the board than to risk losing more of your membership. Quoting from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and then shutting down your board is the height of hypocrisy and you are protecting no one but yourself. If you really believe in freedom, open up your thread and let your members respond! However, it seems you are more comfortable declaring the righteousness of your opinions and then using your benevolence in protecting fandom than engaging in an open and honest debate about the issues. Just don’t delude yourself into thinking that by suppressing the voices of the minority, you are protecting the rights of the majority.

    If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all. ~Noam Chomsky

    Censorship reflects society’s lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart

  43. Chainjix

    Not that I care very much (I happen to be rather arrogant and selfish person), but I think You, people, all are nuts. Well, not all, but certainly those who use this blog to discuss what happened or didn’t happen on Church, who’s done whom wrong or whatever.
    I mean, seriously, I get that there was/is a huuuuuge misunderstanding and/or a difference of opinions.
    Can’t you all just get into a chatroom and verbally abuse each other there?
    That was all I had to say in this matter and I shall never adress it again, thank you very much.

    P.S. As a good friend of mine says “No hate whatsoever. Only the axe of hatred in the back”. And she means it well.

  44. BB

    saluki please do not carry this into here. The church has taken the ‘adult approach’ (in my opinion). In attempting to quash the backbiting. I do not know who started it, and (again in my opinion) both parties have valid points. Personally, I do not post at the church as i don’t agree with the way some things are dealt with, but instead of slagging mink or maichan off cause i do not have anything personal against either of them ( Maichan I think you are hot!) I just choose not to post there. It is their site and can do as they please. But I also choose not to post at a sight where they have made a thread specifically designed to badmouth FCOWM and WFW (who I consider to be a friend.)

    Just because the church has decided to close the thread to end bitching, you think it’s ok to bring the church issues here? Well it isn’t K?

    The thread at excommunicated names WFW. I have not seen a post here that specifically names excommunicated. It names haters in general. (i apologize if i’m wrong.) So really, you guys started the issues at this site.

    WFW is herself, always has been and always will be, there is no ‘bullshit’ and she has more than just her Went loving side. (thank-god)
    I for one am very happy with her posts and will continue to read and support her.

    I am expecting to be chastised for my opinions but i really dont care!

  45. Notthedoctor

    LYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYNCH!

  46. quotee

    Since we’re on the subject of haters and quoting…

    Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf:
    (Quote regarding “The Big Lie”)

    “All this was inspired by the principle–which is quite true in itself–that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily, and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.

    It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes.”

    “They deem him their worst enemy who tells them the truth.”
    Plato

    “Whenever you have truth it must be given with love, or the message and the messenger will be rejected.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

  47. Erika

    This is all so fucking stupid from both forums involved. Do you people realise that grown ass women are acting like silly teen girls trying to prove who is more wrong. You are all fucking wrong! Admit your fault, apologize and lets all just bloody move on with our lives. I hate that all the bullshit had to spill over on this blog…that will be you Mink and Saluki. Call me when this idiotic circus is over.

  48. WFW

    I realize that I am wading into “enemy territory” here…

    Wet for Went is a place of peace and has always been. *completely serious face*

    My only real enemy is bullshit and it is kind of bullshit for hate for me to be borne of hate for someone else. Shit, if you’re going to hate me, hate me for a good reason, not for the people I might happen to know a little better than some.

    I had nothing to do with the decision to suspend Church services until the charity project has ended (I’m not a mod); I wasn’t even around for it. It had already happened when I got to my computer.

    I’m not sure they’ll respond here as I think they are trying to actually wait for this shit to die, at least where the project is concerned. As for opinions about the modding style and general personality differences, that might be best expressed at the thread dedicated specifically to that and we all know where that is.

  49. maichan

    Saluki, for the record, I suggested to Mink that we lock the thread. As I stated at Church, my personal motivation for doing so was the hope that it would help quell the sordid in-fighting that has overtaken the fandom. As it seemed that anything posted at Church would inevitably end up being picked apart or misconstrued by those with an axe to grind, the only course of action was to remove the source of the flame fodder. I again beseech all fans to please move forward from the negativity and put personal differences aside for the remainder of the charity project. And above all, I sincerely hope fans will try to enjoy themselves once again and return to focusing on the sublime Wentworth Miller instead of other boards, blogs, websites and their respective participants.

    P.S. BB, you are smokin’ too.

  50. Mink

    Yellowbelly

    Re. niknak’s posts, I just don’t get that impression of her posting. At all. I don’t know, maybe that’s because I actually read them. A brief selection of comments from her most recent 20 posts:

    “ABSO-frakkin’-LUTELY! YUMMY! I could SO invest $12 in a cinematic endeavor that includes Mr. Miller in uniform!”

    “Once upon a time, back in late autumn 2006, I discovered a man; one of great resourcefulness, who was full of familial duty, and who would do anything to help his brother out. However, even more enticing than that man, was the one who portrayed him, Wentworth Miller.”

    “I love Wentworth Miller. Wentworth Miller wants to help children. Therefore, I want to help children.”

    “I think a “Win a Date w/ Went” contest in the name of charity would’ve been phenomenal, but then I would have to mortgage property and sell internal organs to ensure winning…”

    Not a single post in the 20 I looked at with any “slightly bitter tang” or anything like it. The problem with so many comments like this from various people having their say on the current situation, is that people seem to have got some ‘impression’ in their heads from a few posts ‘having a go’ at Went and their outrage means that now they don’t remotely see the truth. I constantly hear ridiculous sweeping statements about how I or others at the Church “hate” Wentworth, when absolutely nothing could be further from the truth. We adore him (and say so frequently on the board), we just have the occasional bitch at him when we think he could be doing something differently – an opinion about which, I am sure, he gives not a fuck.

    No one has to read what we write, but if you (or anyone) are going to give an opinion about it whereverthefuck on the web, at least do us the courtesy of actually basing your opinion on fact rather than some general impression based on a few posts you’ve blown out of all proportion in your mind.

    Why did the “gentle ribbing” morph into sarcasm and black comedy?

    Um, it didn’t? I’m afraid you’re going to have to give me some actual examples, because I’m kind of lost here. The only thing I can think of that you may be referring to that seems to have gotten under a lot of people’s skin is the ‘gay’ jokes. I know most people are just going to continue to fail to get this, but these are not intended as jokes at his expense. They are jokes about the ridiculousness of anyone giving a fuck if he is gay or not. WE DO NOT CARE if he’s gay, straight or a bit of both – once ‘the gay’ doesn’t bother you, you find you can joke about it. I don’t think many people in this fandom are close to that, so I’m afraid that side of our humour is just going to continue to pass many people by. Sorry about that.

    But to be entirely clear: JOKING ABOUT WENT BEING GAY DOES NOT MEAN WE “HATE” HIM, because to us calling someone gay is not an insult. Not sure how I can say it any more clearly than that.

    Of course it is your right to say whatever you please on your own board but you have to be prepared for the reaction of people with different background to yours or from a different culture.

    That’s fine, but (I have no idea how many times I have to say this), if you don’t like it, you do not have to read it. I just don’t know how else to say it. We simply do not get why, if people don’t like what we write, they feel the compunction to come and read it and then go and bitch about it elsewhere. Why? It makes the fandom look silly and childish. If you don’t like it, don’t read it!

    The other option is to make it private for a few choice friends and all the interference will cease.

    Riiiight. So you are saying that we should only say what we want ‘in private’. *boggling* What on earth is that if it isn’t censorship? We believe we have the right to run a public board so that new people who might like our sense of humour (believe it or not, there are quite a few – you might even run out of fingers) can discover us. That DOES NOT MEAN that we feel it’s necessary for those who already know they don’t like our approach to constantly lurk at our board in order to then go and bitch about everything we say in another public arena, frequently taking what we say out of context and twisting our meaning so as to misrepresent it in the process. It’s a form of online terrorism, and, yes, an attempt at censorship.

    Please do not insult my intelligence by telling me your beef with other fans (or WM ) is a fandom phenomenon, because it is NOT.

    Er, what? What I said was: “As for the people you don’t ‘approve’ of having a “beef” with Went? Just… *yawn* Change the record, won’t you? It’s not any more true today than it was yesterday, and it was a total load of crap yesterday. So, yeah.”

    How is that telling you that this imaginary “beef” of which you speak is a ‘fandom phenomenon”? *is baffled* What my comment means is: we don’t have a “beef” with Went in any way, shape or form. We adore Wentworth; we (a few of us) just have the occasional bitch at him when we think he should be doing something differently. All part of our fannish devotion.

    I can count the ones that agree with you in the Church and have stated so on the fingers of one hand.

    Really? I need at least two hands. 😉 Actually, a lot of people have expressed sympathy with our position privately, it’s just that these tend to be fairly intelligent people, who have no wish to get ‘down in the dirt’ with those at ‘Excommunicated’ and start trading blows with them. We tend to think that the grubby way they behave in constantly bitching at other fans should stay in their nasty little corner of the web. I have no idea how many pages of bitching they’re up to currently, but at the FCOWM board, we have posted approximately half a page of pushback in response. That isn’t because we (and others) couldn’t respond; it’s because we choose not to.

    Just as you have an opinion on everything WM does or doesn’t do so do others on the things you do or say – you put yourself in the public light, you have to deal with the good AND the bad that comes with it.

    And you imply you don’t have an agenda? I have no idea why you think it is fair and reasonable to constantly target what some people say, frequently twisting their meaning to the point of complete misrepresentation in the process. Apart from anything else it makes the fandom look ridiculous – as if all people are interested is bitching about other fans. But if you think that’s cool, then, hey, that’s your prerogative.

    I readily admit to not understanding a single thing that has been going on in the Church in the past six months so could you please explain (I really want to know, no snark involved) what on earth happened that provoked the (temporary) closing of said Church? How did you come to the conclusion that your right to free speech was being challenged?

    Well, you could read maichan’s announcement as well as mine – that might help. Our right to free speech has been challenged because, for one thing, the constant, vindictive flaming about our board is distracting the fandom at a time when people should be focusing on something much more worthwhile – the charity project.

    Therefore, we felt the need to try and take drastic action in order to stop the flaming. Because of this we have had to temporarily shut down our board – an action which we would not have taken had every word we said not been subject to being torn apart at “Excommunicated”. I don’t know, seems to me that’s an infringement of our free speech caused by their behaviour.

    I never noticed anyone disagreeing with you on anything of importance on your board.

    I thought you said you’d read our board? People have disagreed with me over the past 18 months vociferously and often. All those posts are still up, so go and look for yourself. But in this particular instance, that has nothing to do with it. People are, and always have been, free to disagree with me at our board. The closing of the thread was purely down to the constant flaming becoming a distraction to the charity project, nothing more.

    It’s just that this is the only means of direct communication with Mink that I’m aware of.

    You mean apart from via PM at our board or via the oft posted e-mail address, mink@fcowm.com?

    Well, anyway, there you go. Asked and answered.

    And for someone “outside the fandom” you seem remarkably well informed.

    saluki, you have missed the point so spectacularly I would hardly know where to begin setting you straight. Although try taking a look at maichan’s post above and actually reading it, for a start.

  51. yellow belly

    Thank you for the detailed response, Mink.

    After I posted here I went to the Excommunicated site and read most of the posted opinions on FCOWM. I was surprised to find that what I posted here was far more inflammatory than almost anything there; the posts there having the indisputable advantage of giving examples, which I am not informed enough to provide in my posts. There were not a few voices I perceived to be quite well-meaning. But that just me.
    And I apologize for my angry tone, I was just appalled by the closing statements at FCOWM, for the exact reasons saluki has stated. If you believe she’s missed the point, so have I. I can only quote WFW herself here: “I bitch because I care!” And I don’t mean WM by that.

    As I implied in my previous post, I cannot engage in a blow-by-blow discussion of specific posts for reasons of too little time and knowledge. My point is that I FELT the stark change in atmosphere and was compelled to address it as I’ve enjoyed your board very much in the past. As I understand your response, you feel not FCOWM but its surroundings have changed. I’ll leave it at that then. It’s regrettable the effect has been this devastating.

    “That’s fine, but (I have no idea how many times I have to say this), if you don’t like it, you do not have to read it. I just don’t know how else to say it.”

    How am I to know whether I like it before I’ve even read it? I did like it until not too long ago. 😉

    “Riiiight. So you are saying that we should only say what we want ‘in private’. *boggling* What on earth is that if it isn’t censorship? We believe we have the right to run a public board so that new people who might like our sense of humour (believe it or not, there are quite a few – you might even run out of fingers) can discover us. That DOES NOT MEAN that we feel it’s necessary for those who already know they don’t like our approach to constantly lurk at our board in order to then go and bitch about everything we say in another public arena, frequently taking what we say out of context and twisting our meaning so as to misrepresent it in the process. It’s a form of online terrorism, and, yes, an attempt at censorship.”

    If I’m not very much mistaken terrorism and censorship involve violence or the threat of such. Have you been threatened by anything else than opposing opinions and inflammatory posts? The internet is a public place – it possesses all of its characteristics, including lurking, gossiping, ranting, bitching and moaning, outright lying etc. I don’t understand why this is a surprise, even if it could be appalling to many.

    “People have disagreed with me over the past 18 months vociferously and often.”

    On topics regarding WM, not the above mentioned internet issues, which are the only ones I deem of importance since they concern people actively participating on the board or in the fandom in general.

    “And you imply you don’t have an agenda?… But if you think that’s cool, then, hey, that’s your prerogative.”

    No, I’m not the head of “Haters United To Bring Disgrace To Wentworth Miller’s Fans.” I seem to disagree with you on just about any internet-related topic imaginable – at least at the present. I’ll leave it at that.

    The moment seems to be highly emotional to all involved and I apologize for letting my anger get the better of me and galvanize things even further. I won’t be meddling anymore; peace…

  52. niknak

    WFW, I do apologize in advance. I know your board was not intended to host the voices of a discontent fandom. I also know that you somehow managed to get lodged into this, and for that I am deeply sorry.

    Thanks to mink for her evidence that I do indeed do more in my posts than berate WM for something that he didn’t do over a year ago. While I may still critique him on occassion, as shown, most of my posts come from a place of adoration for him or support for my “Sisters in Snark.”

    ‘Excommunicated’ may have been born out of the disdain some people had with the way FCoWM was moderated, and that’s fine. The problem with that particular site came about when they decided to drift away from the facts and start making personal attacks at the moderators and posters in general. Yellowbelly, you may not have seen anything harsher in tone from then than what you posted here, however, there are several pages of that thread that have disappeared, pages a lot more hurtful than what you currently see. Additionally, they have managed to say horrific things about mink, maichan, and WFW simply because of the way they mod their boards or what they choose to post. While it may seem like they are merely voicing their opinions, the personal attacks have done nothing more than erode the fandom, and cause hurt feelings. Though the Churchies and WFW fans may not know one another in person, or have met face-to-face, we still have conversations outside of the boards, and have developed friendships.

    My angry post on the Church site came about because when I discovered ‘Excommunicated’ I was appalled at what some of the people I have posted alongside felt the need to make public for all to see. There is also a rampant hypocrisy that undermines any success of that board based on the fact that they are all about being ‘mod light’ and ‘harmonious,’ when they are the ones who feel the need to host a thread about their hatred of another fan board. Honestly, what purpose does that thread serve other than being fodder for hate? And, how long did the folks at that site think they were going to be able to get away with being nasty and hateful before it just got to be too much, and we decided to fight back?

    ‘Excommunicated’ was not mentioned or called out on the Church site until I felt the need to post about it. I saw my friends being attacked, called names, and being spoken of in a derogatory manner, a manner that pissed me off enough to say something. Had it not been for the Negative Nancies spewing their hate, it wouldn’t have been necessary to address this at all. The Church would not have been closed if it had not been for the fact that there is so much bullshit going on that it detracts from the matter at hand, which is the charity project.

    You are right in saying that this is a highly emotional situation. No one deserves to be called out by name and bashed on the Internet like a fucking pinata! While mink may not be the fandom’s favorite mod, she is still a fucking human being on the other side of the screen. There is no reason for her to be personally attacked just because people don’t like her sense of humor or the way she runs her board. The only person who gets a true say in her mod style is maichan, and if maichan doesn’t have an issue with it, no one else should either. As for mink only allowing posts that agree with hers, that is remarkably ridiculous. I have disagreed with her on more than one occasion, and not one of my posts has been edited or deleted. So long as the post is coherent, articulate, and on point, there is no reason to censor it. Saluki, you left the Church long before you were banned because the opinions of the mods didn’t agree with yours at the time. You censored yourself my dear! No one at the Church inflicted that upon you. You didn’t feel like holding your ground, and that is why you left. Don’t blame it on anyone other than the person you see in the mirror… and if you want to address that with me directly feel free to contact me!

    This is how I see it: FCoWM is the Church that maichan and mink built. If you want to play in their house, you play by their rules– same as it is with any other organized group. If their rules call for proper spelling, capitalization, and grammar, then that is their fucking prerogative! If you don’t like it, then don’t play there!!! It obviously isn’t that much of a detriment for WM fans to go elsewhere, so what is the big damn deal?

    Sadly enough, there were also vicious attacks on WFW and her credibility. People felt the need to say negative things about her as a person, and question her even being included in the charity project because of her name. They insulted her site and questioned the authenticity of her autographed photo. How are these things not personal nor hurtful? Especially since she is the one who is allowing us to use her site as a medium?

    What it comes down to is that thread needs to die off. If closing the Church for the time being is the only way it’s going to happen, then I think the Church mods are taking the high road in doing so. However, if the mods at ‘Excommunicated’ feel comfortable enough with the success of their board, maybe they should just shut down their hateful thread and allow the rest of us to commune w/o fear of scruitiny for every word we write and vicious personal attacks? Just a thought… When will enough be enough?

  53. *Oh oh oh, it’s the Excommunicated Sho-hoo-hooooow*

    Well! Since we’re having show and tell, I guess I may as well throw my two pennies into the pot. But before I do, may I just ask…why all the high school drama? Aren’t we supposed to be in Life College, where when one has a beef with someone else, you go out to a bar, get trashed then proceed to beat the fuck outta one another? Seriously, what is this?… He said, she said, shut the fuck up? *sigh* Hope everyone packed a lunch…

    Now, as some (but not all) of you know, I was a Went-whore right from the get-go. I didn’t start having an “active” internet life till about a year ago, but I was always a lurker. I lurked the NC. I lurked the OC. I even lurked Pretty Central. Shit, I remember when most of you “showed up.” I was there before you, Saluki, and I was there before Mink. My point is, I’ve been around long enough, and I’ve paid close enough attention to ALL of this to assess what’s happened. I’ve been reading WFW’s blog for most of its existence, and I have watched the FCoWM evolve into what it is today. And this is what I’ve seen…

    It is, and was my understanding at the time of the original FCoWM’s closing, that the WM fans who were posting in that thread were pissed at Sobell for her LACK OF MODDING. Ho’s were runnin’ rampant, soaking up the floors, and not cleaning it up, passing out drunk in the baptismal, and so on and so forth. It was a hot ghetto mess, and many of the OPs, as I recall, were not impressed. SO. Maichan and Mink decided to join forces and give everyone (especially OPs) a place to carry on with the Wentworship, without having to hire a janitor (cuz really, who has those kinds of funds…it is a church, afterall).

    IIRC, Sobell’s first post at the OC said something about the FCoWM being a place for Wentworth’s “most ardent fans” (i.e. batshit crazy). *looking around* Yeah, that appears to be us. Anyway, to me this phrase implies that the thread was created for those WM fans who were not only up to speed on the newest Wentfo, but probably really knew more than they fucking should about the man. *looking around* Yup! Still us. Regular fans were to keep their asses at Pretty Central…

    Now for all you Excommunicators who’re pissed the fuck off over the modding style of the NC, I’m having a very difficult time understanding why. Y’all were the ones complaining over the lack of modding at the OC. And now you’re complaining about the “over-modding” at the NC. WHAT do you WANT? The rules and regs of the NC are damn near identical to the the rules and regs of the OC. The only difference I can honestly see is that they’re being enforced. Sooo, what’s the problem? Oh wait, don’t tell me…I know this one…I know…

    You know what my favorite thing about the NC has always been? Watching people get Mink’d. It’s my favorite show, really. Now, for those of you who are unfamiliar, it’s a show about people who come into a WM thread and say something stupid/uninformed, get pissed off when the mod tries to correct them, proceed to throw personal insults at said mod, THEN finally get laid out by the aforementioned moderator, who has a low tolerance for assiness . I’ve gotta say my favorite episode was the one with Tears in it. I remember very vividly, I was sitting at my desk at work (obviously not working, mind you). I read Tears’ post, and I shit you not…I got UP from my desk, walked into the kitchen, and popped a bag of popcorn. I then proceeded to go BACK to my desk and sit down and wait…cuz I knew Mink was gonna give me one. And boy did she deliver. Y’know, I gotta say, nothing amuses me more than watching people get Mink’d. Well…that and people falling (cuz really, when is that never not funny).

    Now, from what I’ve read at Excommunicated, which isn’t much (my brain couldn’t take it), the “Haters ‘R Us” thread seems to focus not only on the moderating style, but also the recent influx of supposed “Went-hate” posts and everpresent J-Squared randomness. Y’all seem to have a MAJOR issue with us calling Wentworth gay, or captioning pictures of him, Luke, or J2 with our love of supergayness. You’ve called it crude, disrespectful, and vulgar. Let me tell you about crude, disrespectful, and vulgar…

    Quite a few months ago, WFW did a post (I don’t even remember what it was about), and the comment section was somehow turned into what we now call “The Great Gay Debate.” I’m sure Perez had something to do with it, but I don’t recall. Anyway, that particular post had over 300 comments, most of which dealt with Wentworth’s sexuality. There were fans coming out of the woodworks expressing how disappointed they would be if Went were gay. People were genuinely threatening to stop watching the show, and to stop supporting his career if they found out that he was gay. Some said that it would kill their fantasies, and that they would no longer be fans if it were true…as if being gay is wrong or something to be ashamed of. There was a blatant display of homophobia, and it was disgusting to witness.

    There were a handful of regulars (including myself, Mama Bear, Mink, BB, WFW, etc) who fought with these idiots for DAYS, trying to drive it into their thick skulls that it DOESN’T. FUCKING. MATTER. as it doesn’t affect any of US personally. A month later, it happened again. Some asshat named Jack came into a post and dropped the Lukeworth bomb. You’d have thought the fucking apocalypse was upon us. Ridiculous. This time, many of the regulars tried to stay out of it, as the crazies had already made up their minds and couldn’t be reasoned with. Although you best believe we proper flamed Jack for attempting to actually “out” Wentworth in the manner that he chose to do so, as Went’s sexuality is no one’s business but his own. Needless to say, when the Lukeworth pics came out, so called fans REALLY hit the roof. At this point, we were all done with it. Many of the regulars scattered. Some haven’t been seen ever since. FYI, some of the crazies I was referring to have since made their way over to Excommunicated…hence all the “I hate that they’re calling him gay” talk. *massive fucking eyeroll* Please…y’all know damn well, we don’t care if he is or isn’t. It doesn’t have SHIT to do with us. Hence the reason we joke so freely about it NOW. So to the OPs at Excomm who don’t “get it”…you’re not going to. You weren’t HERE. Most of the gay banter that goes on at FCoWM carries over from this blog. This is just one of those things that falls into that “you had to be there” category, otherwise you’re not GOING to get it. You won’t. And that’s ok. But stop knockin’ whatchu don’t know.

    As for the J2-ness, well that’s all me and MT. And we make no apologies for what we do. Mink and Maichan know how active we used to be in the WM fandom, and they know why we’ve left it, and moved on to (in our opinions) bigger and better things. But they continue to let us play at Church, and so long as we’re not pissing people off, what’s the harm in it, really. Seriously, I think we’re living proof that you don’t have to have a PhD to post at FCoWM. Pssh. You can post your stoopid, so long as it’s funny/amusing. I know we post a lot of random J2-ness at the Church, but we do attempt to tie Wentworth into it somehow…sometimes?…no? Oh well. We haven’t received any complaints yet. *shrug*

    Finally, as for the recent banishment of the Js at Excomm this past weekend, while I certainly wasn’t surprised at the banishment, per-se, I was a lil’ surprised by the comments that followed. Seriously, guys? Really? Y’all weren’t even a LITTLE bit amused? C’moooon. We didn’t do anything on that board that we don’t do at Church…which apparently seems to be the problem since y’all hate the Church. So um, my bad. Hell, most of the jokes in those caps were a jab at the Church/WFW (ie. the Fugmo reference, the ass debate, the blue steel debate, the buttseks). Pretty much all of it, really. But luckily for MT and myself, our friends have a sense of humor. So it was all taken in stride. 🙂 I’m sorry that the rest of you, again, didn’t “get it” and/or found it offensive/stupid. Don’t know what to tell ya. But seriously, how the fuck do you get excommunicated from Excommunicated??! [priestly]Isn’t that, like, mutually exclusive?[/priestly]

    P.S. Dj, MT and I look forward to reading your blog. E-mail us when it’s up! 😉 Likewise, Kelly, I know you were disappointed that your last post at FCoWM was deleted. If you’d like to drop us a note, feel free to e-mail us as well. To everyone else, make LOVE, not war! Now everyone go hug a tree, and donate your lunch money to charity! I know I’m is…

  54. SOILED UNDIES

    WARNING!!! LONG ASS POST. READ AT OWN DISCRETION!

    SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC, but on topic with regard to the last few comments/ posts.

    I expect this to be deleted or edited but I’m a rebel so I shall defy all the same.

    Mink: It was torture getting through your comment/ post. Seriously. I tried to be fair while reading it and approach it with an open mind but ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!

    Again and again you have stated something to the effect of “if people don’t like it don’t read it” blah, blah. But the fact is until recently the Church was a leading source in Went news and events. People may have stumbled on the site and perhaps in the spirit of their love of Went, wanted to join. Some of these people were from different countries and in all probability English was not their first language. The intolerance for anything but perfect diction is really unjust. Went has fans all over the world. Who have different cultures and speak different languages. Why don’t they just join a board in their native language you ask? Why can’t they join FCOWM if that is their wish? It’s suppose to be a public forum dedicate to fans of the Pretty and people should be welcome by mere fact of appreciate of his Highness.
    Again you say but we do have members of his from the world over – however we do require proper grasp of the English language. For some English is not their primary language and I‘ll quote somebody who said “just because someone speaks with an accent doesn’t mean they think in one”. Forgive me; the name of the soul who typed those gracious words escapes me.
    When events like Wentsrael and Wentkorea happen it is wonderful to find people to correspond with in those countries. But say their English is not up to par for your high standards. Will you use them for their info and then reject their application to register?
    That was a hypothetical question. Only you know the answer but I can estimate a good guess –
    “While not a strict requirement, holding an advanced degree, particularly in English literature, is preferred.” (Mink’s rulez and regz post).

    Okay so it’s true, if people don’t like what they read they don’t have to read it. But your eyes do tend to read automatically and how else could you determine if you like what you are reading without having read it first?! They do have the right to go and “bitch about it else where”. That’s their prerogative. You seem so perturbed by this. Why? Could it be because it happens so often? Could it be because you realize that it may all connect to your administrative conduct?

    Okay, let’s leave the selection process of FCOWM.

    I personally think your abrasive, uncouth tone and manner is unappealing. Your apparent intolerance for people expressing opinions in disagreement with your own has not gone unnoticed.

    Also your comment in the tenor of “I hope they gave him some lube” with the French café ad was very distasteful. That is really harsh coming from me because I am no wallflower/ prude.

    From YOUR rulez and regz post:

    “Do afford Mr. Miller his due respect. Given the subject of this forum, and the significant appreciation by the posters here of said subject, Wentworth-bashing will not be tolerated. That said, giving our boy a spot of gentle ribbing for his sometimes questionable choices in footwear, clothing, and cloying coffee drinks is, of course, entirely acceptable.

    And

    • Do use profanity and sexually explicit language sparingly. While not prohibited, please use discretion when doing so. There’s a fine line between titillating and ‘TMI, I’m going to need eye bleach after reading that!’ A little innuendo goes a long way.”

    I think it would do you well to revise your own post. I should think you are in violation of a few of those rules. Or maybe they don’t apply to you. Everybody is equal but some are more equal then others?

    Excom: They seemed to be (with the exception of questioning the validity of WFW’s autographed fan pic) a fair, intelligent, well spoken group. The FCOWM thread is IMO not a hate bashing thread but a therapy session of appalled ex-Churchies trying to deal with their grief and bewilderment from being dismissed from the forum.
    I feel that the banishment of Jen and Jay was entirely just. AJ and whoever else was responsible for that – cute but come on! I think you were trying to prove that Excom are hypocrites and they ban people just as unfairly as the Church but your posts were really off topic and I think you knew exactly what the consequences would be.
    P.S. The brothers Winchester smoke ass!

    Maichan: Hi sexy! I can’t imagine the hurt you must be suffering through with all the dramz and even though we do not know each other well, I do feel you are a lovely person with many fine qualities. I do not pretend to know or fathom the amount of work involved with maintaining a forum like FCOWM and I can conceive that a certain level of order and standard has to be guarded but Mink’s moderating is really extreme. I understand that many people have written to you in this same vein. However as it is your forum it is not for me to question. I will say that it seems to be one of the leading causes for driving people away. I do not know the personal status of your relationship with Mink but loyalty to your friends is one thing and allowing them to rum rampant is another. I think the Dominatrix’s whip needs to be banished for a while.

    We are not talking about those who have abandoned the fandom out of disillusion for whatever reason (boredom, gay rumours etc) but we are discussing the alienated fans of FCOWM that can no longer stand the oppressive atmosphere and tone that the board has adopted.

    A word on the lockdown of the Church and its potential effect on the B-day project. I fear that this may have an unfavourable impact on the project and while you may say it is to deflect attention away from the negative happenings in the fandom I think it’s the wrong way to do it. Yes the thread on the project is still active but people who read the last posts may be driven away with the thought that they would not want to join Mr. Miller’s overzealous cult. As previously said, the Church was a powerful source back it in its heyday and some people may still remember it with affection. Finding it inactive may disappoint many. Also the manner and reason for its inactivation may alarm possible donors.

    WFW, I pledge you my eternal love and devotion. I tried to be as coherent and articulate as possible. Now let me destroy all that with a

    WHIP!!!! PLANK!!! POLE!!!!

    DIE MINK DIE!!!

    Just kidding!

    *fingers crossed behind back*

    Awwww Minky – you know I love you! In the Bizarro world!

    Mwah! SU

    * Please note that I did not always use exact quotes but the gist and ideas are definitely there.

    And I did not read this over so forgive all spelling and grammar mistakes – thank God this isn’t the Church! Oops I started a sentence with “And” that’s usually a no – no.

    *GRIN*

    P.S. Minky you really should consider posting a warning at the beginning of your writings. People couldn’t complain then. It would be their choice to waddle through the bullshit so hand ‘em some wellingtons first please!

    Oh yeah and I do not have an English lit degree but I am a published poet. But nevermind I do not feel the need to “My dick is bigger than your dick”. For the record, if I had a dick, mine would be WAY BIGGER than yours!

  55. SOILED UNDIES

    HA! I just realized it looks like we’re all trying to out do each other for length of post.

    Mink, I know you’re not the devil but dayum! You really do a very good imitation!

    *looks at Lover*

    I LOVE YOU LOVER!!!

    WHIP!!! PLANK!!! POLE!!!

  56. miz brisvegas

    *wades through the dribble*

    Awww, maaaaaan! I can’t believe this shit is STILL going on!

    *wades back through the dribble*

  57. Kassie

    *SIGH*

    This seems as good a place as any to employ the old cliche:

    “There is none so blind as he who will not see.”

    To whom do I refer????

    “If the shoe fits, wear it.”

    That is all.

  58. Mink

    Response to yellowbelly first, so that anyone who doesn’t wish to read it, can avoid:

    Yellowbelly, re. the missing posts from “Excommunicated” haters’ thread which were so offensive, well, you see niknak’s comment on that. I don’t know what else to tell you.

    “That’s fine, but (I have no idea how many times I have to say this), if you don’t like it, you do not have to read it. I just don’t know how else to say it.”

    How am I to know whether I like it before I’ve even read it? I did like it until not too long ago.

    To be honest, that comment wasn’t really directed at you. Of course there may be some people who occasionally drop into Church who find things have changed and they no longer like it, so they have to read some content that doesn’t impress them. That’s regrettable, but kind of what happens with most forms of ‘entertainment’ that continue over an extended period. If I occasionally watch some TV show, and once I liked it, but then they change the show runner and it becomes not to my taste, I’m gonna have to watch a couple of episodes to find that out. Not gonna hold it against the show runner though. It’s just one of those things, and I’m pretty sure the show’s producers didn’t do it to upset me deliberately.

    My comment re. not having to read it if you don’t like it, was principally addressed to those people who are well aware that they don’t like our style, but visit again and again and again just to glean material to feel outraged about and to then take to bitch about elsewhere. What a waste of everyone’s time!

    If I’m not very much mistaken terrorism and censorship involve violence or the threat of such. Have you been threatened by anything else than opposing opinions and inflammatory posts?

    I’m sorry, but if you don’t understand that being the subject of ongoing personal attacks (even just virtual ones) can be very stressful to the people involved, then I don’t know what else to tell you. I hope you are being deliberately obtuse on this point rather than you just “don’t get it”.

    “People have disagreed with me over the past 18 months vociferously and often.”

    On topics regarding WM, not the above mentioned internet issues, which are the only ones I deem of importance since they concern people actively participating on the board or in the fandom in general.

    Well, we’ll just have to agree to differ then. Because the issues I consider of importance with regard to having free speech on our board are those concerning Wentworth. After all, our topic is supposed to be Wentworth.

    There is no way we were ever going to allow our board to turn into an open forum for discussion of our moderating style. We lay out our stall clearly in our rules and regulations, and those who don’t like it don’t have to post there. The fandom already looks ridiculous enough with all of this infighting, mostly posted at “Excommunicated”; we were hardly going to join in without limit and stoke things up further.

    Also, it should be noted, maichan and I have been up to our ears off-boards over the past six months in working on the Wentworth charity project. What with that and running the board, we hardly had time to engage in some petty inter-fandom debate, even if we had wanted to (which we didn’t). We were attempting to do something more worthwhile with our time.

  59. Mink

    Response for SU. Again, not your thing, feel free to scoot on by.

    Warning for those with ADD: Very long post ahead

    So. SU. Right back at ya, honey. And thanks for keeping your petty personal dislike for me out of all this – it does you credit.

    Honestly, I have no fucking idea, when you know how much you apparently hate my style of writing, you don’t just skip right over it as soon as you see one of my posts. Sorry for all the use of long words, but I will not be even a little bit offended if you don’t try and tax your brain by reading any of my posts ever again. You don’t even have to read this one, although there’s some enlightening stuff included in it especially for you, I promise.

    Now, with regard to your problem with our enforcement of proper English on the board. It seems to be something that really bothers you, so I’ll try and give you a detailed answer (sorry, about that).

    Firstly, the requirement for the use of proper English originated from the Church being born out of fan activity at Television Without Pity. Now, I don’t know how familiar you are with that site, but the use of proper English is one of their prerequisites. And people from all over the world post there under that requirement without any problem whatsoever. At the time the FCoWM board was set up, we were coming fresh from TWoP, and the fans coming with us expected the same rules to be applied – indeed, wanted the same rules to be applied. Take a look at AJ’s post above with regard to her understanding that people were looking for strong moderation of the board – our understanding was the same.

    There is a second reason we have always required the use of proper English, and ironically that is for the benefit of the English as Second Language folks that you feel we have treated so unfairly. I have had a number of these folks tell me on a number of occasions (and Krissie has posted on just this topic), it is a lot fucking easier to read and understand an English board where the posts are written in decent English. If those folks with limited English want to read the information and Wentworth discussion we post, it is much, much easier for them to do so than if half the posts are fairly incomprehensible. That would do a much better job of excluding people than our requirement for the use of proper English would do. I have had a number of e-mails or PMs from ESL members thanking us for keeping the board clean and tidy in this way, as they feel they can actually understand what is being said.

    Of course, this does mean that not everyone can post discussion (although everyone can post pics or links), but it’s the tradeoff for making the board more accessible to many than it would otherwise be.

    It also kind of amuses me that, if anything, your love muffin maichan is even more committed to the use of proper English on the board than I am…

    And I have no idea what you’re talking about here?

    Will you use them for their info and then reject their application to register?

    How can we “use them for their info” if they haven’t already registered? They would have to be actively registered in order to post and give us their info. *baffled*

    There is no limitation on registration and membership of the FCoWM board, unless someone has actively trolled the board previously, or otherwise made their membership impossible by their own activities.

    As for this:

    “While not a strict requirement, holding an advanced degree, particularly in English literature, is preferred.” (Mink’s rulez and regz post).

    That you quoted this is just too funny, given your apparent love of maichan as opposed to your vilification of me, because this exact phrase was inserted by maichan as a joke, when I had originally written up most of the rules and regs (which are basically the TWoP rules, as AJ said).

    I wrote most of the ‘meat and potatoes’ stuff, and then she added a couple of jokes, including this one (which is meant to be amusing in its deliberate extremity). Sorry that her humour here passed you by. Don’t know what more can I say about that.

    Okay so it’s true, if people don’t like what they read they don’t have to read it. But your eyes do tend to read automatically and how else could you determine if you like what you are reading without having read it first?! They do have the right to go and “bitch about it else where”.,

    As I said to yellowbelly, my point is they do not have to keep coming back to read content they already know they are not going to like. That is just inane and a waste of everyone’s time.

    And my problem with their bitching is that 1) doing so at a public board makes the whole fandom look petty and ridiculous, and 2) all too frequently what we have said is taken out of context and the meaning twisted so that what they are discussing bears no resemblance to our actual meaning. Do they have the ‘right’ to do this? Sure. Is it ridiculous and petty? Yes.

    I personally think your abrasive, uncouth tone and manner is unappealing. Your apparent intolerance for people expressing opinions in disagreement with your own has not gone unnoticed.

    Well, I find your tone highly offensive, so we’re even. As I’ve said multiple times, people who don’t like my style, don’t have to read it.

    My style hasn’t changed at all over the time the board that has been running. The board had been going strong – my ‘direct’ style and all – for a year when those Went/Luke pics appeared, and the boards’ moderators (most publicly, me) decided there was now enough evidence to come to the conclusion that Wentworth is gay. That’s the only thing which has changed between the time when the board was running successfully and the ‘past several months’ everyone has been bemoaning about things ‘going down hill’. If that doesn’t tell you what the real issue is behind this bitching and moaning, I don’t know what will.

    The complaints about the moderation, which has not changed (in fact, if anything has become more lax as time has gone on) over the entire time the board has been running, are a smoke screen for people’s problems over the ‘gay’ issue. Many in the fandom felt I “turned on” Wentworth when I decided he’s gay, and so they “turned on” me. At the base of it, it’s as simple and ridiculous as that. I did not “turn on” Wentworth in thinking he’s gay. I don’t consider calling him ‘gay’ an insult, and I find him just as amazing, intelligent, charming, charismatic and spectacularly sexy as I ever did – I don’t fucking care if he’s gay! I consider it just a facet of who he is, and that’s it. I also fully appreciate that this is just my opinion, and no one has to share it (ask niknak, who has the opposite opinion to me on this). But for many people, this means it is totally justifiable to try and run me and my ‘disgusting and offensive’ opinion out of the fandom. Well, sorry suckers, but I ain’t done loving Wentworth yet, and you can’t make me.

    Excom: They seemed to be (with the exception of questioning the validity of WFW’s autographed fan pic) a fair, intelligent, well spoken group.

    Really? Well, evidently we are visiting a different board when we go there.

    The FCOWM thread is IMO not a hate bashing thread but a therapy session of appalled ex-Churchies trying to deal with their grief and bewilderment from being dismissed from the forum.

    Well, considering only a handful of people have ever been banned from the FCoWM forum (or asked not to post there), which is what I assume you mean by “dismissed”, I can only assume that’s a very small group of the same people saying the same things over and over. I can count on the fingers of one hand the people who post at Excomm who have actually been ‘banned” from our board. Now, the people implying they have been banned, when they in fact have not, in order to gain sympathy, may well be a much larger number…

    Now, as once again she is being painted as the saint in all this, I just have to say a few words about maichan. Yes, she is an extremely lovely person; she is also my co-moderator, and as such – as she herself has said many times – the moderating style of the forum is a joint decision. Indeed, oftentimes in the past, where a post has been moderated by me, this has been the result of a joint decision from both of us, or even a moderating decision instigated by maichan. She has frequently in the past contacted me via IM to ask me to moderate a post because she is at work and I am on my free time (time differences, dontcha know), so I will go ahead and do that, and the form in which I have moderated the comment has been agreed with her.

    If maichan didn’t like my moderating in any way, she has the power to change it. What moderating stands is the result of the stance taking by both of us. I don’t know how many times, or in how many different ways, we have to say that.

    I will also give you an example of something for which I am vilified but, I suspect, she is painted as some kind of ‘victim’: the visible warning bars (now long since made invisible, but hey, who would expect this fandom to move on from something they can endlessly rehash).

    In Sept 2006 – one month after the board opened – I posted this in the FCoWM Admins thread (visible only to board admins, but that post is still there):

    Okay, there’s just one think I’m re-thinking…I’m thinking we should take the ‘warns’ off being public. I know we wanted to show that ppl really WILL be warned, and we’re not messing about, but I think ppl have got that message now. If things start going to hell, we can reinstitute it, but for now I’m thinking we take ‘warns’ back to being private. Any thoughts?

    In response to this, the other mods at the time, including maichan and erinmarie, voted against that proposal. So the red bars stayed visible for a considerable while longer (although they were made invisible, with my full backing, a long time ago).

    I was happy to go with their majority decision (since we worked as a team), and I’m not intending to make a habit of discussing past inter-mod discussion at our board, but I am getting fucking sick to death of taking all the heat for things which are not solely my decision.

    We are not talking about those who have abandoned the fandom out of disillusion for whatever reason (boredom, gay rumours etc) but we are discussing the alienated fans of FCOWM that can no longer stand the oppressive atmosphere and tone that the board has adopted.

    Funny, because the people who have continued posting there – and have not self-imposed their own ban – feel that since so many self-righteous posters made their way to “Excommunicated”, the atmosphere is much less oppressive than when we all had to constantly watch our Ps and Qs so as not to potentially offend other posters more lacking in the Sense of Humour department. So obviously no one board style is going to suit everyone. I am quite sure we could all live in harmony if we were allowed to do our thing without constant criticism. We have no problem with them running their board exactly how they like (personal insults thread aside); we have no idea why they can’t let us do the same without the constant critical commentary.

    A word on the lockdown of the Church and its potential effect on the B-day project. I fear that this may have an unfavourable impact on the project and while you may say it is to deflect attention away from the negative happenings in the fandom I think it’s the wrong way to do it.

    Well, as she has stated up thread, that was principally maichan’s decision (which I was happy to support as I understand her reasons and we work as a team), but you’ll have to take it up with her if you want to try and get her to change her mind or to discuss it further.

    Yes the thread on the project is still active but people who read the last posts may be driven away with the thought that they would not want to join Mr. Miller’s overzealous cult.

    If you’d read my last post properly, you’ll have seen that I posted my intention to change that message to a more ‘vanilla’ one when people had had the chance to read my disgust at the decision I feel was forced upon us. I will be doing that in a few days, as I said. As for an “overzealous cult”? I may just die laughing. If you are talking about a “cult”, you are looking in the wrong place. I thought we “hated” Went…blah blah blah? You can’t have it both ways. We can’t “hate” him and also be in a “cult” for him; the two are mutually exclusive. Y’all haters have got to get your story straight. *eye roll*

    Finding it inactive may disappoint many. Also the manner and reason for its inactivation may alarm possible donors.

    Well, there’s one cause for all of this – so if you want to petition for removal of the “Excommunicated” haters’ thread, you know where to go.

    HA! I just realized it looks like we’re all trying to out do each other for length of post.

    So do I win?

    Mink, I know you’re not the devil but dayum! You really do a very good imitation!

    Why, thank you. I always feel if something’s worth doing, it’s worth doing well.

    And AJ, you rock harder than words can say. That is all.

  60. Krissie

    My eyes are bleeding.

    Also, I am trying to chew my leg off and GET OUT and I can’t can’t can’t. It’s like watching a car accident. I MUST see what happens next.

    Is there still some of that popcorn left, Mr. Maichan?

  61. So Sad

    I think that being gay is totaly respectful and completely normal but I found ridiculous when at the Church people shouted at his coming out (I’m still waiting for it…) and how he should be sad working for Fox and on PB set considering that they obliged him not to reveal his homosexuality…
    I know nobody cares and everyone can write what they want but I stop reading that site… I prefer WFW humor!

  62. So Sad

    EDIT: I stoppED reading the Church when it (and only it apparently) had enough proof he is gay because it became very boring… and not because I think being gay is something wrong (my gay brother can say something about me in this issue!)

  63. Pingback: Favorite Comments of the Week « Wet For Went

  64. So Sad

    And above all… isn’t Went fucking that rub pussy the real evidence he is totaly straight?!? 😉

  65. Mink

    Wow, SU. Way to demonstrate your reasonableness and intelligence. Congrats on that! 🙂

  66. Anon

    Hateration’s a plague
    its first symptoms are vague
    but the outcome is grim
    it makes us all far too prim

    All ye afflicted don’ run
    Foundation F.U.C.K.Y.O.U. will get your bums
    Its supply of top quality peen
    Can deal even with haters most keen

    Yes peen heals us all
    Just give F.U.C.K.Y.O.U. a call
    One night of expert whirling
    And all of you will be yearning
    To write “I love you all!”

  67. LadyN

    Too. Much. Reading. Have. To. Microwave. More. Popcorn!!!

    *runs to kitchen…………2:00 minutes later burnt popcorn at the bottom of bag* Shit! 20 seconds too long.

    *Passes bowl to Mr. Maichan and Krissie*

    ENJOY!!! 😀

  68. SOILED UNDIES

    Note, I reposting previously removed posts. They are slightly edited. Sorry Lover, I tried to tone it down.

    Dear Minky

    I expect a long ass post from you because I know how you love to have the last word but WOW! A whole freaking novel! I couldn’t read it. I just skimmed through but I think I got the gist:

    BLAH BLAH BLAH, I’m always right, BLAH BLAH BLAH, I’m a bitch – deal with it! BLAH BLAH BLAH, Maichan is not an innocent bystander she’s my enabler, BLAH BLAH, Went is gay, BLAH BLAH, I’M A LOSER! BLAH BLAH……..

    Okay so now I’m being a bitch and a bigot. You really rub off on people don’t ya?! I will read and comment properly later because I do have a few issues with the garbage I have skimmed over. Perhaps we should do this via IM or something. Nah – let’s just mudsling in public. Give the people a show for as they care to read.

    Alright, Let me stop procrastinating…..

    Where to begin…..*looks at Mink’s word vomit, pops a prozac*

    To be continued….

    Looks at Mink’s verbal crap again, downs the whole bottle of prozac with whiskey (Maker’s Mark! Yeah baby!) and looks around for the Tylenol

    I believe you are in the UK. Correct? Well I think you may be at least 6 hrs ahead of me so you should be done with work etc (if that’s your schedule) and are at home which means that you have the leisure to respond – so allow me an opportunity to do some RL stuff (laundry etc) and I’ll get back to you. Around eleven or twelve E.T.

    P.S. Whether you give a shit or not I will respond.

    Mwah! SU

  69. SOILED UNDIES

    Reply to Mink’s post that I think was removed by WFW:

    Mink, I wasn’t trying to demonstrate anything.

    FYI, If I ever did a demonstration it would be bedroom technique related.

    BTW, Love the smiley. What’s that for? To illustrate snark or wit? Maybe to confuse me as to the true nature of that comment. Are you just trying to provoke me? I see what you’re doing! I’m onto your game baby!

    Your just trying to antagonize me as a way to get me into bed aren’t you! You want me! Admit it!

    Well hun, while it’s usually true that there’s a party in my panties and everyone is invited – you are NOT! ACCESS DENIED !!!

    Now, as I said before I really don’t have the time to write a proper response to your previous comment (because I didn’t really read it yet) [end removed]

    Peace out!

    Mwah!

  70. niknak

    I think someone is playing on the Internet without her parents permission again…

    SU, honey, don’t you think you should go play somewhere else? The grown-ups were talking, dear.

  71. SOILED UNDIES

    I was wondering when the lame were going to make an appearance!

    *MASSIVE EYE ROLL A.K.A. DOING A MINK*

    niknak – I’ve never addressed you. I don’t even know who you are nor do I don’t care who you are. Feel free to continue your silly comments – pathetic attempts to taunt me.

    Since I was the fifth commentator on this blog and feel that this is my home – why don’t you go find a new playground? Maybe you can ask that the Church be reopen – it may be more your speed.

    I think puppy is lost. Sorry I don’t have time to call the shelter. Why don’t you try to find your way home? Or better yet – get run over by a car!
    (Sorry animal lovers, I am an animal activist too – my bad. I try not to sink to their level but I am only human – I can admit my flaws).

    For the record, no one but WFW has the power to tell people to go away – your suggestion is noted. I will flip you the bird to relieve my aggravation.

    Happy?!

    Regards!

  72. SOILED UNDIES

    WARNING: LONG POST DIRECTED TOWARDS MINKY BUT IF ANYONE ELSE CARES – YOUR EYE STRAIN, NOT MY FAULT.

    Minky, I really don’t want to get into a back and forth with you because A) I don’t have the time, B) This is getting old fast, C)Your posts are tedious to read. I find no amusement in them. There’s not even encouragement for any fun banter. You are so disappointing. However I am determined that you not have the last word – childish – yes but nevertheless I will continue to counter and respond because surely there will always be something to be corrected, clarified or reinterpreted from your posts. Do not disappoint me in this regard!

    I felt the best way to address your bullshit was to quote your post and then dissect it in layers. I tried to remember to italic your gripes or at least put it in inverted commas…..mine should be in normal text…if not – sorry – my bad!

    “Honestly, I have no fucking idea, when you know how much you apparently hate my style of writing, you don’t just skip right over it as soon as you see one of my posts.”

    The problem with posting your opinion of the World Wide Web is that it’s public for all to see and read. While I do have a problem with your style I can’t ignore it either. I continue to skim over your dribble, hoping that “perhaps today will be the day that Mink will write something sensible” – alas time after time I leave disenchanted.

    “Now, with regard to your problem with our enforcement of proper English on the board. It seems to be something that really bothers you, so I’ll try and give you a detailed answer (sorry, about that).”
    BLAH BLAH
    “Of course, this does mean that not everyone can post discussion (although everyone can post pics or links), but it’s the tradeoff for making the board more accessible to many than it would otherwise be.”

    Okay, I can concede that for the most part that is a valid and reasonable explanation. But is the nazi – like grammar dissection really necessary? And though someone may not speak perfect English in most cases they are still able to express themselves adequately. Have you ever thought that the abrasive, abrupt, rude, and often public manner in which you enforces your grammar, spelling etc rules, intimidate, humiliate and drive away people. Many people have posted on other forums, blogs etc the manner in which you address the language situation had warned them off from joining FCOWM. All I’m saying is that a little tolerance goes along way.

    “It also kind of amuses me that, if anything, your love muffin maichan is even more committed to the use of proper English on the board than I am…”

    Okay, I’ve addressed the language thing and honestly I have no idea of Maichan’s stance on it – but “love muffin”?! I’ve never said I loved Maichan. I said I thought she was a lovely person. But I have never used the word love with regard to how I feel about Maichan. I really don’t know her well enough. We’ve only ever engaged in light banter and I found her very witty and agreeable. I respect her yes. Love is too soon to tell. I felt the need to nitpick that since you are such a precise and detail orientated person, IMO. So please don’t put words in my mouth. Thanks.

    “And I have no idea what you’re talking about here?
    Will you use them for their info and then reject their application to register”?
    How can we “use them for their info” if they haven’t already registered? They would have to be actively registered in order to post and give us their info. *baffled*

    It was a hypothetical estimation. And they could send their info via IM or through another member. Yes? No? You could even link them via another source. What if after viewing the Church they wanted to join? You’ve used their info/ story on your board will you turn them away if their English is not up to standard. Either way it wasn’t a question that needed an answer or an observation – just a theory. Or mere pondering.

    “There is no limitation on registration and membership of the FCoWM board, unless someone has actively trolled the board previously, or otherwise made their membership impossible by their own activities.”

    But there is a criteria for membership approval no? I mean why else does it take a certain amount of time for approval to be granted for membership? Other sites grant membership immediately after filling in the registration form. The Church usually takes a while longer. Why? Do you do background checks or something. That seems a reasonable conclusion or maybe I’m just paranoid? Whatevs again– that’s your privilege. I don’t see the reason for your bafflement though.

    “While not a strict requirement, holding an advanced degree, particularly in English literature, is preferred.” (Mink’s rulez and regz post).
    “That you quoted this is just too funny, given your apparent love of maichan as opposed to your vilification of me, because this exact phrase was inserted by maichan as a joke, I wrote most of the ‘meat and potatoes’ stuff, and then she added a couple of jokes, “

    If that was by Maichan, then I still don’t get the humour. It doesn’t sound sarcastic or snarky. Especially when taken in context of the rest of the post. Which is quite serious as you were stating what was acceptable and what would warrant expulsion from the thread. While it didn’t strike me as a joke or funny I can allow that perhaps I just “didn’t get it”

    “Okay so it’s true, if people don’t like what they read they don’t have to read it. But your eyes do tend to read automatically and how else could you determine if you like what you are reading without having read it first?! They do have the right to go and “bitch about it else where”.,
    As I said to yellowbelly, my point is they do not have to keep coming back to read content they already know they are not going to like. That is just inane and a waste of everyone’s time.
    And my problem with their bitching is that 1) doing so at a public board makes the whole fandom look petty and ridiculous, and 2) all too frequently what we have said is taken out of context and the meaning twisted so that what they are discussing bears no resemblance to our actual meaning. Do they have the ‘right’ to do this? Sure. Is it ridiculous and petty? Yes.”

    But it’s still their prerogative. Why does it bother you so much. What’s petty to you isn’t to others. Trying putting yourself in other peoples shoes. There’s always another point of view. I think that’s your limitation and could possibly be your downfall. Mink, you really are a very narrow minded person, again IMO. As least that’s how you represent yourself on the Net.

    “My style hasn’t changed at all over the time the board that has been running. The board had been going strong – my ‘direct’ style and all – for a year when those Went/Luke pics appeared, and the boards’ moderators (most publicly, me) decided there was now enough evidence to come to the conclusion that Wentworth is gay. That’s the only thing which has changed between the time when the board was running successfully and the ‘past several months’ everyone has been bemoaning about things ‘going down hill’. If that doesn’t tell you what the real issue is behind this bitching and moaning, I don’t know what will.”

    Oh please! Are you insinuating that Went’s sexuality has something to do with the fall from grace of the board?! How blind are you! Wake up and smell the French café or better yet – have a cuppa! Consider that perhaps it is the way you so blatantly force your views down people’s throats and condemned anyone who challenged you. Once you made the decision in your mind you tried to indoctrinated in everyone else through your propaganda. And you did not address the lube/ French café “quip”. Why am I so worked up about that? Because it was an advertisement Mink! An ad! For which I hope he was compensated. But to drag the “gay thing” into that and in such a disgraceful manner is disgusting and shows your lack of respect for both Went and the gay community. I have nothing against lube or even the suggestion of Went using lube – but to give him that much shit because of a fucking coffee ad! That’s ridiculous. This disregard for his dignity clearly violates your (and / or Maichan’s rules)

    • Do afford Mr. Miller his due respect. Given the subject of this forum, and the significant appreciation by the posters here of said subject, Wentworth-bashing will not be tolerated.”

    Own up to it already! Hypocrite much!

    “Excom: They seemed to be (with the exception of questioning the validity of WFW’s autographed fan pic) a fair, intelligent, well spoken group.
    Really? Well, evidently we are visiting a different board when we go there.”

    Well now, I may just have to eat my words. All may not be what it seems. I wanted to contact the administrator “Tears” at Excom. I did not know how to send her a message without registering so I did in fact join. I ask her a question to which she responded, I then asked another and suddenly without warning I was informed via error message that I had been banned. I do not know if this was a technical error or something to that effect but if it was a deliberate banning then I am truly gobsmacked. Preaching fairness and pledging not to censor – then banning without warning or just cause! Tears if you would like to contact me about this matter feel free. The same for anyone else wanting details. I will try to reserve judgment until hopefully someone responds.

    My statement:” The FCOWM thread is IMO not a hate bashing thread but a therapy session of appalled ex-Churchies trying to deal with their grief and bewilderment from being dismissed from the forum.

    I still stand by my original assessment of the FCOWM thread on Excom.

    “Now, as once again she is being painted as the saint in all this, I just have to say a few words about Maichan. Yes, she is an extremely lovely person; she is also my co-moderator, and as such – as she herself has said many times – the moderating style of the forum is a joint decision. Indeed, oftentimes in the past, where a post has been moderated by me, this has been the result of a joint decision from both of us, or even a moderating decision instigated by Maichan. She has frequently in the past contacted me via IM to ask me to moderate a post because she is at work and I am on my free time (time differences, dontcha know), so I will go ahead and do that, and the form in which I have moderated the comment has been agreed with her.
    If maichan didn’t like my moderating in any way, she has the power to change it. What moderating stands is the result of the stance taking by both of us. I don’t know how many times, or in how many different ways, we have to say that.
    I will also give you an example of something for which I am vilified but, I suspect, she is painted as some kind of ‘victim’: the visible warning bars (now long since made invisible, but hey, who would expect this fandom to move on from something they can endlessly rehash).
    In Sept 2006 – one month after the board opened – I posted this in the FCoWM Admins thread (visible only to board admins, but that post is still there):
    Okay, there’s just one think I’m re-thinking…I’m thinking we should take the ‘warns’ off being public. I know we wanted to show that ppl really WILL be warned, and we’re not messing about, but I think ppl have got that message now. If things start going to hell, we can reinstitute it, but for now I’m thinking we take ‘warns’ back to being private. Any thoughts?
    In response to this, the other mods at the time, including maichan and erinmarie, voted against that proposal. So the red bars stayed visible for a considerable while longer (although they were made invisible, with my full backing, a long time ago).
    I was happy to go with their majority decision (since we worked as a team), and I’m not intending to make a habit of discussing past inter-mod discussion at our board, but I am getting fucking sick to death of taking all the heat for things which are not solely my decision.”
    *SHIT THIS IS LONG OR WAS IT FUCK THIS IS LONG LOVER?!*

    Wow, how strongly you felt the need to defend yourself even rehashing a quote from two years ago. Fair enough. I don’t think you interpreted my message to Maichan correctly.

    I wrote: Maichan: Hi sexy! I can’t imagine the hurt you must be suffering through with all the dramz and even though we do not know each other well, I do feel you are a lovely person with many fine qualities. I do not pretend to know or fathom the amount of work involved with maintaining a forum like FCOWM and I can conceive that a certain level of order and standard has to be guarded but Mink’s moderating is really extreme. I understand that many people have written to you in this same vein. However as it is your forum it is not for me to question. I will say that it seems to be one of the leading causes for driving people away. I do not know the personal status of your relationship with Mink but loyalty to your friends is one thing and allowing them to rum rampant is another. I think the Dominatrix’s whip needs to be banished for a while.

    I am under no illusion that Maichan is a “victim”. I’m sure she is a strong – willed intelligent person more than capable of running her board . My sympathy was directed to the lockdown of the Church and the effect it must have on her. This I can only guess though since I have no communication with Maichan but I was told that the decision was a hard one for her and that it hurt her deeply. I never stated that the decisions made on FCOWM were solely yours and I never thought so. As I understand it Maichan chooses to take a lesser role and allows you to do the bulk work of regular moderation but the decisions are all joint. What my grievance to Maichan was and what I questioned, concerned your mod style. So Maichan may agree with you but I do think her mod style would be more TACTFUL. TACT Mink – Look it up. Acquire some!

    “We are not talking about those who have abandoned the fandom out of disillusion for whatever reason (boredom, gay rumours etc) but we are discussing the alienated fans of FCOWM that can no longer stand the oppressive atmosphere and tone that the board has adopted.
    Funny, because the people who have continued posting there – and have not self-imposed their own ban – feel that since so many self-righteous posters made their way to “Excommunicated”, the atmosphere is much less oppressive than when we all had to constantly watch our Ps and Qs so as not to potentially offend other posters more lacking in the Sense of Humour department. So obviously no one board style is going to suit everyone. I am quite sure we could all live in harmony if we were allowed to do our thing without constant criticism. We have no problem with them running their board exactly how they like (personal insults thread aside); we have no idea why they can’t let us do the same without the constant critical commentary.”

    Consider that it may be constructive criticism. You could better yourself and the board from the comments made from posters that take the time and trouble to voice their impressions.

    “If you’d read my last post properly, you’ll have seen that I posted my intention to change that message to a more ‘vanilla’ one when people had had the chance to read my disgust at the decision I feel was forced upon us. I will be doing that in a few days, as I said. As for an “overzealous cult”? I may just die laughing. If you are talking about a “cult”, you are looking in the wrong place. I thought we “hated” Went…blah blah blah? You can’t have it both ways. We can’t “hate” him and also be in a “cult” for him; the two are mutually exclusive. Y’all haters have got to get your story straight. *eye roll*”

    Firstly, why vanilla it? Why not stick to the statement – uhmmm. Maybe because it’s bullshit and you pulled it out of your ass? My patience for your faux righteousness has worn thin. Stand by your words! In most cults people tend to fear their leader but still they revere and follow him. These could be considered contradictory. Fear and reverence. So why can’t hatred be connected as well. Cults are often irrational, unorthodox sects which comprise of people that may be unstable and have conflicting emotions, ideas. . Let’s not debate on the what a cult could be defined as. I just urge you to think before you adopt that all knowing condescending tone and state your opinion as if it were fact.

    “Finding it inactive may disappoint many. Also the manner and reason for its inactivation may alarm possible donors.
    Well, there’s one cause for all of this – so if you want to petition for removal of the “Excommunicated” haters’ thread, you know where to go.”

    What’s with labeling people “haters”?! I don’t think I am a “hater” and please do not refer to me as one. Since you brought Excom into this I will add that it’s funny how you extended the hand of peace and called for a treaty – but only if they comply to your terms. You seemed very threatened by them. Another mark of your insecurity?

    “HA! I just realized it looks like we’re all trying to out do each other for length of post.
    So do I win?”

    Mink as long as you stay as you are and do not learn and grow and refuse to listen to the ideas of others or even consider that you may be mistaken – you will never win. Look, all the people that have voiced their disaproval over your attitude and mod style can’t be smoking the same hash! It’s time to look at yourself and ask “What am I doing that could warrant this kind of animosity towards me?” I could say more but frankly my dear I don’t give a damn. I think you are a lost cause. Oh help me! I’m an optimist. Hope is suppose to spring eternal – there many be a glimmer for you yet. Maybe you’ll read this after a time and see while I do dislike your style and disagree intensely on many matters with you – I really don’t hate you. I’m open to the possibility of getting a peppermint mocha frappy together one day and laughing………………………..yeah right! BLEH!!! * *gagging* okay let’s settle to treat each other with some decorum and courtesy.

    One last dig,

    “Mink, I know you’re not the devil but dayum! You really do a very good imitation!
    Why, thank you. I always feel if something’s worth doing, it’s worth doing well.”

    If you’re proud to imitate the entity of evil – then go on with your bad self! Since you liked the association so much let me sincerely wish that you burn in hell!!!
    Regards!

    Mwah!!!

    WHIP!!!

    PLANK!!!!

    POLE!!!!

    note: It’s late and I’m tired. I will not be reading this to check for spelling etc so I apologize if it’s hard reading. But it’s your choice to read it.

  73. WFW

    I am a friend of FCOWM but I am also a friend of others and being in the middle is getting on my nerves. I’m going to start deleting and lock this post if this continues since there is already a place to discuss issues with FCOWM and the mods have said that you can contact them directly.

    This is not Church.

  74. SOILED UNDIES

    WFW, Thank you for me allowing me to say my peace. I apologize for the situation I put you in.

    I’m over this whole thing.

    Mink, Maichan, everyone else – I wish you happiness, good health and prosperity. If you’re ever in S.A. or even New York please contact me – I’ll be glad to take you out for a drink.

    Love, peace and good will to all.

    SU

  75. BB

    Fuck me SU did u get carpel tunnel after typing all that?

  76. XChurch

    SU, she didn’t hear you but we all did, thanks! You ROCK!

  77. gypsiee

    Wow. Gandhi & Plato …. Hitler even. Didn’t I mention once before that this blog did its bit towards education.

    P.S. To WFW *Whishpering* I’m still waiting for that bondage thing 🙂

  78. wtever

    Just because you asked for it:

    I’m going to settle the debate and the drama it caused and say this once and for all

    Wentworth Miller is indeed GAY!!

    How do I know that?

    Because Went is a nice guy and I’m sure he goes after the saying:

    “Do unto others what you like others to do unto you”

    I rest my case!!

  79. gabrielle

    hi girls. i’m new around here

  80. miz brisvegas

    Someone posted before that this is like a car accident or something – one can’t just look away!

    Oi! Pass over the popcorn this side of ‘Stralia, would you?!

    *munches*

  81. lolita

    shut up all of you! i don’t want to read esseys here,come on…where is the REAL fun???? we just forget why we all are here? come on…

  82. Kassie

    @SU:

    “I will try to reserve judgment until hopefully someone responds.”

    Try joining again.

  83. touched

    DAMN people can we just MOVE THE HELL ON!!

    Seriously killing my Darvocet buzz.

  84. LOL

    Btw have you heard that Wentworth Miller IS gay??

  85. Krissie

    #
    LOL said:
    Btw have you heard that Wentworth Miller IS gay??

    OMG, WHAAAT?!

  86. miz brisvegas

    Lol 3.14pm: “Btw have you heard that Wentworth Miller IS gay??”

    Oh, I’ve this one. It’s akin to that joke, “Why did the chicken cross the road?”, right?

    From memory, the punchline was: Who the fuck cares?!

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